'New Order Tried To Take The Bread Out Of My Kids' Mouths'

When Peter Hook & The Light first toured our shores in 2010 and performed Unknown Pleasures in full to celebrate 30 years since the album’s release, this scribe was a little sceptical about hearing Peter Hook’s vocal in lieu of the late Ian Curtis.

But the temptation to hear those distinctive, high bass lines and see Hook’s trademark wide stance overrode the fear and, surprisingly, his vocals didn’t grate. So what prompted Hooky to take the mic? “The decision to sing was very sad, actually,” he confesses. “What happened was there was such an internet bloody backlash against doing the whole thing in the first place that the vocalists that I had lined up were all terrified – they wouldn't do it – and it was Rowetta from the Happy Mondays, God bless 'er, she said to me, 'Hooky, stop fookin' around. You're gonna have to sing it.' And I went, 'Aaaaah, I wanna play bass. No, I don't wanna sing.'”

“Gillian Gilbert, God bless 'er, she never really could fill the hole that Ian [Curtis] had left."

So what it came down to was necessity and Hook reveals, “It took me about six months, I must admit, to start enjoying meself, because Ian's shoes were very, very big shoes to fill. Luckily for me, Bernard [Sumner]'s haven't been so big!” Hook’s referring to performing New Order’s third and fourth albums – Low-life and Brotherhood – in full this time around. Because Hook wrote “all the early New Order stuff” together with Sumner, the band’s frontman, and drummer Stephen Morris, he says that although Sumner’s parts are “not easier to sing, funnily enough... there was a certain familiarity” that he didn’t have with Curtis’ lyrical content and vocal lines “because Ian did them all on his own”. With the New Order material, Hook enlightens, “I didn't actually feel like I was trespassing, does that make sense? In a funny way, sometimes Ian's lyrics are that intense and that close to him that sometimes when you're singing them you think, 'Fuck!' It's like reading someone else's diary. Because we worked on our songs together as New Order it's a little less prying, shall we say.” 
        
Hooky’s furore when his former New Order bandmates “re-formed without asking [him]” back in 2011 is widely publicised. “I defy you, I defy anybody in that position to go, 'Well, THAT's all right,’” Hook fumes before switching on the sarcasm: “Yeah, 30 years’ work into that brand name. Yeah, you just take it and carry on then. Just flick me 20p whenever you feel like it. I'll be okay, yeah, don't worry about it, off ya go.”

"New Order was like a table with a wonky leg."

And Hooky’s barbs are not restricted to just Sumner and Morris. “It was always funny in New Order,” he continues. “Gillian Gilbert, God bless 'er, she never really could fill the hole that Ian had left; so New Order did have a charming fragility, shall we say, that we used to exploit, and it was like a table with a wonky leg. Joy Division was a very firm table, you know, when you rocked it nothing moved, but New Order was like a table with a wonky leg and it always moved, and occasionally you'd put a beer mat under it and it would be okay for a bit, but then it would go again. But it did add to our allure and the thing is that I'm not pretending to be New Order, my big beef with them lot is because they're pretending to be New Order when they're patently – obviously they're not.

“The thing is, is that what I'm doing is celebrating the records and most people have heard the records rather than seeing the group live. Especially with Joy Division.”

"My big beef with them lot is because they're pretending to be New Order when they're patently – obviously they're not."

In 2012, Peter Hook & The Light visited our shores to perform Closer in full and they landed about a month after the new New Order's tour of Australia as part of the Future Music Festival bill. “Oh, it's happened more than once. It happens all the time,” Hook acknowledges. Does he ever get scared that he'll bump into his former bandmates at the airport? “Ah, yeah, because then I might, you know, lose control,” he laughs. “Me and Bernard live in the same village! His house is literally a mile from my house, across the other side of the village.” And there's been no sightings? “I've never seen him,” Hook marvels before remembering: “I saw him drive past me actually, once, about three months ago. He's got a convertible and I saw him drivin' his convertible. But I never see him. 'Cause it does make me wonder – I mean, you know, I'm going through a huge legal battle with them and it's very expensive, very time consuming, very, very stressful, and then I keep thinkin', 'Imagine if I bumped into him.’ It's bound to happen sometime. Yeah, it's weird.”

Replacement Hook in the new New Order, Tom Chapman, has even been known to sign New Order records. How did Hook find him out? “Er, because I was given the records to sign,” he responds. “I mean, my band: if they even consider it I go, 'Oi! Piss off!' You know? It's terrible, it's terrible. But, you know, it depends on the fan; maybe the fan asked him to sign it? I don't know, for all I know he might've thought it was me, hahahaha. A younger, uglier version of me.”

"I'm going through a huge legal battle with them and it's very expensive, very time consuming, very, very stressful."

He’s previously referred to Chapman as “the Milli Vanilli of bass”, and Hook admits of the substitute bassist “it’s a very strange position to be in”. As for the rest of “the people masquerading as New Order” (as Hook has often chosen to refer to his former bandmates): “They've got their position that they're trying to uphold, and I understand it, but I just think that you could've acted with a little more dignity – a little more respect – and the thing is we're tied together anyway, do you know wha' I mean? We're tied together forever anyway. So for them thinking that they could just do it and get away with it was ridiculous. It's like, ‘Do you not know Peter Hook?’ You know, ‘You were with 'im for 30 years! Do you think he's the type to just lay over and take another kick up the arse?' You know? Do ya know wha' I mean? It's terrible.”

Having recently watched Joy Division the documentary on iView, this interviewer was particularly intrigued by Hook’s observation that composing songs was always easy as part of Joy Division, but it became difficult after Curtis passed. “Yeah it was,” Hook confirms. “It's true that, and you know what? I sit there and I'd love to know why, but I can't figure it out. I mean, it must just have been the physical act of losing Ian that made it more difficult.” 

From an outsider’s perspective, however, it does seem like the cracking tunes did keep coming out of camp New Order. “Yeah, I mean it's true,” Hook allows. “It was difficult at the start, but Bernard became a very, very good lyricist and a very good singer. He's not the most technically perfect of singers, which I suppose in a funny way makes it easier for me because I'm not the most technically perfect of singers either [laughs]. So I can emulate his shortcomings – and I don't think I'm being unfair by saying that – as well as his strengths... We were very lucky and it was very hard work to carry on after Ian's death. And the fact that we ignored Joy Division and only played new music and promoted ourselves as a new group actually made it a little bit easier.

“We literally put Joy Division to bed. The fact that we concentrated completely on New Order with not a thought to Joy Division, or the material, made New Order a resounding success 'round the world.”

"I can emulate [Bernard Sumner]'s shortcomings."

In the same aforementioned doco, Hook expresses his regret over not seeing Curtis after he died or attending his wake. Does he not worry that something awful will happen before he’s had a chance to reconcile with Sumner and Morris? “There is that thought,” Hook considers, “but you have to fight for what you believe in and what you think is right, and what you think is wrong, you know? I'm sat here with my wife and we've been together for nearly 20 years, and I rely on her completely – she's much more objective and much more sensible than me – and I say to 'er, 'Am I doing the right thing here?' And she says, 'Yes, you are you're doing the right thing. Carry on.' And that's the most important thing as far as I'm concerned. Those people have tried to take the bread out of my kids' mouths and I'm not having it.” 

He’s definitely not an unfeeling prat and there’s hurt in Hooky’s voice when he ponders, “I do feel for the others, I mean, their decision to take the New Order name, um, if they'd have asked me and got my approval – and maybe had some meetings, you know, negotiating some terms – it would've been okay. But they didn't. They chose to ignore me, take [the name] and then just start playing.” Do Hook’s lawyers have a timeframe for when this will potentially all be settled? “They're hoping to get it resolved this year.”